Re: Please check out kenzu/sara -suspected of multi/ script using

by Smog Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:24 pm

(2011.11.17 - 12:08:33) admin: they come, need to bank, so whoever logins first banks, then you need to have the other bank
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:41) Smog: 5 seconds later sara back
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:43) Smog: s
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:47) Smog: banks*
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:57) admin: so then kenzu banks, then turn passed so sara might aswell bank again so that she doesn't have to bank for an EXTRA 30 mins

Why would they need to "come" if they work on different PCs, and why would they login the same time? And 2 minutes after the turn pass, why would they bank in the same time again? That is one person, doing the same thing on two accounts. This is my last post here, so don't bother replying.

by Admin Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:20 pm

Smog wrote:(2011.11.17 - 12:08:33) admin: they come, need to bank, so whoever logins first banks, then you need to have the other bank
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:41) Smog: 5 seconds later sara back
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:43) Smog: s
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:47) Smog: banks*
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:57) admin: so then kenzu banks, then turn passed so sara might aswell bank again so that she doesn't have to bank for an EXTRA 30 mins

Why would they need to "come" if they work on different PCs, and why would they login the same time? And 2 minutes after the turn pass, why would they bank in the same time again? That is one person, doing the same thing on two accounts. This is my last post here, so don't bother replying.

no one ever sits on the comp 24/7, hell even going to the kitchen to make/have lunch they go together
k, thank you for proving my point that you will twist any words to find any possible excuse so that you dont have to apologize for your lying

by adrian Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:40 pm

you really think you`re talking to 5 year old kids here.

You are despicable.

by damgood Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:59 pm

Admin wrote:
Smog wrote:(2011.11.17 - 12:08:33) admin: they come, need to bank, so whoever logins first banks, then you need to have the other bank
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:41) Smog: 5 seconds later sara back
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:43) Smog: s
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:47) Smog: banks*
(2011.11.17 - 12:08:57) admin: so then kenzu banks, then turn passed so sara might aswell bank again so that she doesn't have to bank for an EXTRA 30 mins

Why would they need to "come" if they work on different PCs, and why would they login the same time? And 2 minutes after the turn pass, why would they bank in the same time again? That is one person, doing the same thing on two accounts. This is my last post here, so don't bother replying.
no one ever sits on the comp 24/7, hell even going to the kitchen to make/have lunch they go together
k, thank you for proving my point that you will twist any words to find any possible excuse so that you dont have to apologize for your lying

That's what you've been doing in this topic.

by Admin Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:05 pm

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoYou

by Keinutnai Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:18 pm

@Mujengan accusers

I am getting fed up with all of these petty accusations. Let's go over the list. Mujengan acused me of:
Keinutnai is using scripts to bank
Keinutnai is banking for both accounts
Keinutnai is playing both accounts
Keinutnai is multiying.
admin gives advantages to Keinutnai

And let's face reality. There is only one person who has to judge me. Admin has to judge me, and no one else. I don't even need to bother giving you evidence to counter your accusations. All that matters is that admin knows that me and Sara are playing. What you guys think doesn't matter at all.

Let's look at the real reasons of these accusations:

You are doing really bad at war, but you don't want to surrender, because you got too much pride, and when thinking why you are losing this war, instead of looking at weaknesses and bad decisions of your own alliance, you try to put the blame on others, in World Republic. You looked for something suspicious, and once you found something suspicious you started calling me a cheater, without considering that actually you guys are wrong. And all these accusations you have made up, are based on one claim (frequent and similar banking times), and you ignore all those things, which prove you wrong. And with closed eyes, you hold on to your false beliefs. Let me ask you, who knows better if me and Sara both play? You or admin?

I rest my case.

castravete wrote:you see Kenzu, I'm actually leaving because of this...I had several thought of leaving but I decided to play it on for so very long...but this is the filling drop...I think your brother is given you several advantages and he is not treating us equal so I want to leave because of this...Enough for a reason?

Usually, I am sad to see a player leave, but in your case, I am very happy. After all these years of playing together, when I trusted you, you have lied in my face, betrayed and backstabbed me. I will never forget this and I hope I will never see your name again!

by adrian Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:58 am

Keinutnai wrote:@Mujengan accusers

Let's look at the real reasons of these accusations:

You are doing really bad at war, but you don't want to surrender, because you got too much pride, and when thinking why you are losing this war

I hadn`t had such a laugh in weeks. Thank you kenzu. You didn`t cheat, as you were winning the war too. Thanks for pointing out the similarity between those two.

I think this topic needs to be closed. Enough BS already.

by Steveanaya Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:31 pm

are we doing bad in this war? Lets look at the losses ffor both sides

by castravete Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:54 pm

kenzu, stop crying,dude...I mean: you lie, you cheat, you are wining wars, etc...Ain't that good enough for you?...You can fight alone with 10 alliances, you'd still win...Your brother will take care of that...won't he;)!?

by Kingofshinobis1 Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:00 am

.......wow. wth happened here . sorry for the spam but I have been reading over this and all i have to say is wtf. +1 if you agree

by Steveanaya Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:56 am

+1,000,000,000,000,000

by castravete Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:49 am

it's simple, king...If you have read all these the conclusion is: KENZU, THE ADMIN'S BROTHER, IS CHEATING...HE ENGAGED IN A WAR WITH US ALONG WITH A BUNCH OF SEMIACTIVE NOOBS AND WHEN HE REALIZED HE IS LOSING HE STARTED CHEATING...WE CAME WITH SOLID PROOFS BUT THE ADMIN CAN'T PUNISH OR EVEN CHECK ON HIS BROTHER AND WE ALL PREFER TO LEAVE THAN PLAYING KENZU'S GAME...Pretty obvious?...Isn't it?...We'll if you have the time point it out to the admin, he doesn't seem to realize it:))

by kingkongfan1 Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:37 pm

I want to add my 2 cents to this thread, but I want it known that I am not here to accuse, nor defend kenzu's actions, just to point out a couple of facts and to clear up a few questions I have...

Also I would like to point out that I know nothing about ip's other than mine usually changes every time I shut my computer off.

fact 1)
when kenzu was accused of scripting, or using a script, admin was quick to point out that kenzu didn't have the know how nor the patience to set up & use a script... I for one believe him.

fact 2)
when smog stated the following,,,
(2011.11.17 - 11:55:31) smog: your brother is multi ing

admins response was,,,
(2011.11.17 - 11:56:17) admin: like some others who also have their multis as officers and they also invited them to get invitation bonuses?

admin never states kenzu is innocent of multi'ing... but I do not think that admin could tell if kenzu/sara were banking for each other based on the following...

(2011.11.17 - 11:38:52) seaborgium: the only way to really find any wrong doing is to look at ips at the time of banking

to which admin responds,,,

(2011.11.17 - 11:39:04) admin: which rly helps when we are all at 1 house lol

I do not know if they have 3 computers in the house sharing the same ip address or what, but if this is the case added to the amount of time that kenzu & sara spend in their room how could it be known who banked for who?

I would like to add that I have never known anyone human to ever be able to pull off the kind of extended "coordination" that smogs evidence shows insofar as the Kenzu/sara banking for one another goes... logic dictates that it is physically impossible for two different people on two different computers to continually bank within seconds of each other for weeks at a time without any variations... to have pulled off the impossible is truly an amazing feat.

I would like to point out as well that before smog quit the game & sold his acct he admitted to using scripts himself...

(2011.11.17 - 12:12:05) smog: 7) use automated processes, macros, scripts or the like
(2011.11.17 - 12:12:32) smog: please ban me for breaking rule no7

so in the end, do I believe that kenzu/sara banked for one another?

yes...

but as I read somewhere else in these forums, it really doesn't matter...

by Keinutnai Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:01 pm

This "coordination" is nothing to be amazed of. Just imagine it. I sit in a room on my notebook, my wife on another one. We agreed that we remind each other to bank all the time. Then when anyone thinks its time to bank again, this person reminds the other. Usually I remind her, and while I go to bank, she goes to bank too. That's why me and her bank usually within the same minute.

Maybe it seems strange to you, because it's not usual for 2 people to be in the same room for most of the day, but for me and Sara it's our daily routine.

Admin can also check all my invitations. All the people I invited are real.

HOW IP ADDRESSES WORK

And now about IPs. Each computer has its own IP address, however if you go on Aderan Wars or any site, it will not be your computer IP address, which appears, but the IP address that the telecommunication provider assigned to your modem that connects your computer to the internet. If you connect with multiple computers to your modem, then no matter what computer you use, it will always have the same IP, the IP of your modem.

This means that all computers connected to the same modem will have the same IP address in the internet.

Then there is also static and dynamic IP. If you have a static IP, then your IP address will be always the same, while when you have a dynamic one, your IP will change frequently, and you will appear as a different IP address every day. In some countries static IP is more common, in other countries dynamic IP is more common.

by seaborgium Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:20 pm

My comment was made before I knew you nor sara had a job.
There really isn't a true way to see who did what with out being able to see it directly.
While I do think its unmoral to do what Kenzu is being accused of, lets face it you can't catch it.

by adrian Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:21 pm

sea, you can catch it, there are methods, you just need to "want to".

i won`t comment again on coordination cause I would repeat myself. What i comment on is the coordination occured exactly at 4 turns passing.(that`s right every two hours, no exception).

The IP tracking thing is getting old. That`s why cookies and sessions have been invented, so they can store other "valuable information" about the PC accessing the site; For example, look at your login details(where it says all your login times on account), you see beside your IP the type of browser and operating system you`re using ( interesting isn`t it Smile

). No matter your IP, you always get tracked by your cookies. So if you use the same PC, the admin knows. It`s just he won`t admit it. Of course cookies can be avoided too, but if kenzu is as admin says at scripting, I don`t think he pay very much attention to cookies.

by seaborgium Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:35 pm

But there are many ways to block cookies.
As for sessions again there are ways around that too.

In an old game that allowed multis for the freeforall server you just had to clear cookies to get into the next set of accounts, so please don't be that naive.

the IP and browser is no way to really get much other then they are using a common connection and browser.

But I do think kenzu and Sara were helping each other bank, do I care, yes. Do I feel there is a true way for admin to find it, no.

by Smog Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:51 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
I would like to point out as well that before smog quit the game & sold his acct he admitted to using scripts himself...

(2011.11.17 - 12:12:05) smog: 7) use automated processes, macros, scripts or the like
(2011.11.17 - 12:12:32) smog: please ban me for breaking rule no7

so in the end, do I believe that kenzu/sara banked for one another?

yes...

(2011.11.17 - 12:10:59) admin: on the other hand I see a reload every 10 secs
(2011.11.17 - 12:11:06) admin: someone might think it's an automated process
(2011.11.17 - 12:11:45) Smog: that's a 5 seconds reload
(2011.11.17 - 12:12:05) Smog: 7) Use automated processes, macros, scripts or the like.
(2011.11.17 - 12:12:32) Smog: please ban me for breaking rule no7

The 5 second reload is the automated process.

by kingkongfan1 Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:50 pm

Spoiler:

thanks for the explaination, I understand now. I apologize for misunderstanding that part of the convo...

by Nomad Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:37 am

Well if they are all in the same house why can't Admin just look with his own eyes?

I mean has anyone asked him if he watches Sara and Kunzu both stop what they are doing, both go to separate computers, log in and bank every 2 hrs religiously for 2 weeks straight within seconds of one another?

I mean if its true isnt there a good chance the log in are so close it proves its impossible the be the same person? Or even both logging in in the exact same second or same few seconds? Surely that has to exist?

Personally I do not care anymore, and have not since they were able to pull off this same feat back when they were in 2 different countries.

Besides, since the PTR was released, is it even illegal to have 2 separate accounts anymore? As long as both are played properly? Honest Question.

by Manleva Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:22 am

Well I also have been watching this thread with interest and I'll make the following comments.

1. Those asking all of the questions have not yet asked Admin the correct questions that would resolve the situation. (Of course this also means that they would have to believe the answers as well and I doubt that's a reasonable possibility).

2. The answers that have been provided are plausible and possible.

3. The request for logs to be posted is stupid. Seriously, if the boot was on the other foot then I would expect to see them screaming for it not to happen.

4. a good percentage of those leaving have had their accounts up for sale for some time.

5. Finally and probably the most important. In every other game I have played the decisions of Admin are generally final and while players are able to discuss issues privately with Admin, anything carried out publicly if against the rules and dealt with severely and very promptly

by Keinutnai Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:45 am

adrian wrote:sea, you can catch it, there are methods, you just need to "want to".

i won`t comment again on coordination cause I would repeat myself. What i comment on is the coordination occured exactly at 4 turns passing.(that`s right every two hours, no exception).

The IP tracking thing is getting old. That`s why cookies and sessions have been invented, so they can store other "valuable information" about the PC accessing the site; For example, look at your login details(where it says all your login times on account), you see beside your IP the type of browser and operating system you`re using ( interesting isn`t it ). No matter your IP, you always get tracked by your cookies. So if you use the same PC, the admin knows. It`s just he won`t admit it. Of course cookies can be avoided too, but if kenzu is as admin says at scripting, I don`t think he pay very much attention to cookies.

Me and Sara sometimes use the same computer. Especially when we come home, or if we wake up, or if only one computer is turned on. We bank from whatever computer is turned on first. I admit it, and it isn't against the rules, we both have reported shared computer use back in 2009. Btw, you have to report shared computer use already when you use the same IP, it doesn't have to be the same computer.

Also looking for cheaters, admin uses much more methods than just looking at IP and log in times. If you cheat with multies, even if you use different IPs and log in at different times it doesn't mean that he will not find you. It will be harder to prove your guilt, but you can still be banned.

Nomad wrote:Well if they are all in the same house why can't Admin just look with his own eyes?

I mean has anyone asked him if he watches Sara and Kunzu both stop what they are doing, both go to separate computers, log in and bank every 2 hrs religiously for 2 weeks straight within seconds of one another?

I mean if its true isnt there a good chance the log in are so close it proves its impossible the be the same person? Or even both logging in in the exact same second or same few seconds? Surely that has to exist?

Personally I do not care anymore, and have not since they were able to pull off this same feat back when they were in 2 different countries.

Besides, since the PTR was released, is it even illegal to have 2 separate accounts anymore? As long as both are played properly? Honest Question.

Ok, so admin comes and sees that both me and sara are in our room and both sit behind our notebooks. Then what?

You do realise that we dont have to "go to separate computers to bank", since we are at out computers for most of the time.

We have banked in the same second for sure. But let me ask you Nomad, you think if admin tells them that we banked in the same second sometimes that they will believe him? Even if they see it themselves, they will make something else up. In fact, I myself can tell you, that even if two accounts are banked in the same second, it alone doesn't prove innocence.

Each person is allowed to play one account of aderan wars. And if two people share IP, they have to report shared computer use. PTR doesn't forbid two people in a house to play AW. PTR measures what is legal and what is illegal feeding.

Manleva wrote:Well I also have been watching this thread with interest and I'll make the following comments.

1. Those asking all of the questions have not yet asked Admin the correct questions that would resolve the situation. (Of course this also means that they would have to believe the answers as well and I doubt that's a reasonable possibility).

2. The answers that have been provided are plausible and possible.

3. The request for logs to be posted is stupid. Seriously, if the boot was on the other foot then I would expect to see them screaming for it not to happen.

4. a good percentage of those leaving have had their accounts up for sale for some time.

5. Finally and probably the most important. In every other game I have played the decisions of Admin are generally final and while players are able to discuss issues privately with Admin, anything carried out publicly if against the rules and dealt with severely and very promptly

Admin is trying to be the role model for a democratic admin who allows free speech unlike in most other games.

by Mystake Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:44 pm

Based on what I've seen, and using my opinion as a former developer..

Martin man this looks bad.

by Admin Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:41 pm

Mystake wrote:Based on what I've seen, and using my opinion as a former developer..
Martin man this looks bad.

As manleva posted and for many other reasons, this should have been locked and even deleted a long time ago

Damgood a script user himself who I have already caught once which he himself eventually admitted and adrian his housemate/sibling/whatever who most likely knew about the scripts, here was THE cherry on top of this.

by Nomad Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:48 pm

deletion would have been the worst thing you could have done.

JMO

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